【禁闻】对话前连日清场 港各界不乐观

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【新唐人2014年10月21日讯】10月20号,香港雨伞革命进入第23天,学联也将在21号与港府展开首次对话。不过,面对连日来的警方暴力清场,以及特首梁振英指称,“占中”行动有外来势力介入的情况下,包括学联在内的香港各界人士,对谈判结果并不乐观。

香港政府将在21号与学联展开对话,港府表示,在《基本法》及中共全国人大常委的决定范围内,愿意聆听学生的看法。

学联代表将要求政府向全国人大常委提交补充文件,如实反映市民对真普选的诉求。学联副秘书长岑敖晖19号表示,不少市民是自发占领,梁振英是唯一能解决问题的人。岑敖晖敦促政府提出化解当下政治危机的时间表和路线图,并强调,目前不是谈撤离的时候。

泛民立法会议员19号发出联署声明,强调对话展开前,港府必须放弃任何清场计划,包括移除障碍物。

据了解,香港警方17号清晨突袭旺角占领区,试图拆除路障后,连日来警民冲突不断。19号凌晨,警方以警棍攻击占中民众,导致7人头部受伤、2人骨折。

海外团体“和平香港行动”发起组织之一、“公民力量”也敦促各界高度关注香港未来几天的局势走向。声明指出,警方暴力升级,加上中共18届四中全会召开,造成的清场紧迫性,使和平抗议的学生和市民面临政府暴力的高度威胁。

不过,梁振英19号在接受媒体访问时指称,占领行动有外来势力介入。他还说,占中人士争取的公民提名,不符合基本法的要求,特区政府无法将不合法变成合法。中共党报《人民日报》也发表评论文章,高调宣称“学联”在政府总部外的主台背景板上打出“命运自主”口号,反映了“占中”的真实目的,是寻求香港“独立”。

对此,学联秘书长周永康表示,外来势力介入的声明,显示了梁振英要打击占中行动的想法,并为运动添加颜色革命色彩。占中发起人陈健民则对党媒港独说法给予否定。他指问,如果学生寻求港独,为何仍要写信给中共国家主席习近平?学生的行动其实已承认国家主权。

19号晚,周永康在金钟占领区集会上表示,港府态度愈来愈强硬,他对学联与港府对话结果不乐观。

时政评论员伍凡:“梁振英讲,清场跟对话不是一回事,可是香港的市民和学生不这样认为,他说对话的基础,我就要占领中环、占领旺角,如果街上一个人都没有,那根本就不要谈了,没有谈判的资本,所以这两个是冲突的。我很怀疑,明天能不能谈起来,无论是在谈判的内容,或者是在现场占领和清场这两个冲突,都使这场谈判前景,我是不看好。”

香港立法会议员单仲偕:“我对这个会谈有结果,不太乐观,但是有对话,总比没对话好。我希望,第一轮对话以后,还有第二轮。当然(对话)有破裂的机会,但是我想,大家也不用太悲观。”

香港《明报》日前在各占领区所做的问卷调查显示,近7成受访者对北京或港府是否会让步感到悲观,超过7成半的受访者认为,应将占领行动升级,例如开展不合作运动等。不过,在受访者拣选最多的3个退场条件中,其中一个是“提委会民主化”,有学者认为,这一点有机会成为学联与政府谈判的突破点。

单仲偕:“大家也不应该太多猜想,减少对他们的压力,期望太高,也不客观,大家都放低自己的期望,让学生跟政府有一个比较大的对话空间,2小时的对话,我估计只是做一个粗步的交流,说明大家的立场,很难有一个实在的成果。”

占中发起人之一戴耀廷表示,首轮对话难有成果,但希望政府在21号的对话中,承诺建立一个包括学联、政府、泛民主派以及建制派在内的多方平台,继续沟通,共同解决社会矛盾。

采访/朱智善 编辑/陈洁 后制/陈建铭

Clearing Occupy Causing Pessimism Regarding The Dialogue

As of Oct. 20, the umbrella revolution has gone
on for 23 days.
On the 21st the first dialogue between the Hong Kong
Federation of Students (the federation) and the Hong Kong
Government will launch.

However, faced with violent police clearing the streets
for the past few days and what the Chief Executive Leung
Chun-ying alleged foreign force mediating in the movement,
people are not optimistic about the dialogue.

The Hong Kong government indicated the dialogue
is on the premise of Basic Law and the National People´s
Congress decision.

The federation requested that the government submit
supplementary documents to the NPC Standing Committee
to reflect the true aspirations of the people of the true
universal suffrage.
Deputy Secretary General of the federation Lester Shum
said on the 19th that Occupy Central was a spontaneous
civilian movement, and CY Leung is the only one who
can solve the problem.
Lester Shum urged the government to propose
a timetable and roadmap to resolve the current
political crisis and stressed that evacuation
is not the current focus.

On the 19th Pan-democracy Camp of the Legislative Council
issued a joint statement stressing that the government
must abandon all of the streets,
including removing obstacles before the dialogue.

However, CY Leung has not stopped police
from clearing the streets due to the dialogue.
Since early morning on the 17th when police raided
Mong Kok and attempted to remove roadblocks,
clashes between the police and protesters
have been ongoing for days.
On the morning of the 19th, police attacked protesters with
batons, resulting in seven head injuries and two fractures.

The overseas organization Citizen Power for China
(Initiatives for China), urged all walks of life in the world
to pay attention to the situation in Hong Kong.

A news release highlighted that escalated police violence
and the upcoming Fourth Plenum have created an urgency
to clear the streets.

Protesters were threatened with potential
governmental violence.

However, CY Leung told media on the 19th
that foreign forces are involved in Occupy.
He said the protesters´ demand of civil nomination does not
meet the requirements of Basic Law, and the HKSAR
government will not turn what´s illegal to legal.

The Communist mouthpiece People´s Daily also claimed
the federation slogan, “independent destiny," reflected
that the real purpose of the movement is to seek
Hong Kong´s independence.

In this regard, the Federation Secretary General Alex Chow
indicated that so-called foreign force showed CY Leung´s
ideas to defeat the Occupy Central and labeled
the movement as the color revolution.
Occupy Central convener Chan Kin Man denied
the so-called “independent Hong Kong."
He pointed out that if the students seek independence,
why would they appeal to President Xi Jinping?
In fact, the students´ actions have actually recognized
the state sovereignty.

On the 19th evening, when addressing the Admiralty,
Alex Chow said that the government has an increasingly
tough attitude and he holds little expectation
for the dialogue.

Current affairs commentator Wu Fan: “Leung Chun-ying said
the clearing of the streets and the dialogue are two different
issues, but it is not so to the Hong Kong citizens and students.

Occupy Central and Mong Kok are the basis of the dialogue.
Without Occupy Central, there is no dialogue.
Occupy Central is the capital for the dialogue
and the two are in conflict.
I doubt the dialogue will reach any conclusion.

I am not optimistic about the dialogue, in content or in the
conflict between the Occupy and the clearing of the streets."

Hong Kong Legislative Council Sin Chung-kai: “I am not very
optimistic about the talks.
But, the talks will be better than none.

I hope there will be second round of dialogue
after the first round.
Of course, there´s a chance for a split,
but, we should not be too pessimistic."

A Ming Pao survey regarding Occupy showed nearly
70 percent of respondents are pessimistic.
They do not believe Beijing or the HK government
would compromise.
More than 75 percent of respondents believe
that the occupation should be upgraded.
For example, a non-cooperation movement
should be carried out.

However, some scholars believe that this is an opportunity
for “The Nomination Committee democratization,"
to become a breakthrough in the dialogue.

Sin Chung-kai: “We should not be speculating too much.
We should also reduce the pressure on them.
High expectations are not the objective.

Lower the expectations so that the space
of dialogue is larger.
A two-hour dialogue, I estimate, would be just
a rough exchange of the stands of both sides.
It will be hard to reach anything concrete."

Benny Tai, organizer of the Occupy Central, indicated
it will be hard to get results with the first dialogue.
But, he hopes the Government will agree to establish
a multi-platform between the federation, Government,
the pan-democratic camp, and the pro-Beijing camp
for communication and resolution of the social conflict.

Interview/Zhu ZhiShan Edit/ChenJie Post-Production/Chen JianMing

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